Curse

Tobias Funke · Jul 08, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Crippleshot/apply poison ranger who kites = dead toucher.

As this is my favorite PvP build I have to inject a point here. Yes, this owns a touch ranger. Usually you can own 2 at a time. But in AB's there comes a time when the other teams 6 touch rangers realize that you and the mesmer are the only ones that know how to stop them. So in the end we get mobbed by said touchers and go down first. While waiting to rez the rest of our team gets wiped out because they have no idea how to beat a toucher. By the time we get back into the action our team has lost 2 control points and all the whammos rage quit because their team mates "let them die". I'm left saying "balls" to my self. Maybe touchers need the nerf bat and the point about them not being atttacks is spot on, but more importantly people need to stop being lame and learn do their own thing. It's really a much more fun game when you do that.

KamikazeChicken · Jul 08, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

The skills are not overpowered, expertise is not overpowered, and the combination of the two are not overpowered. The damage output is annoying at best, unless you're completely incapable of kiting or getting healed.

ANYONE can kite touch rangers, and this greatly deminishes their damage output. There's also multiple ways to counter them through specific professions, and outright healing would be the easiest.

There's really no reason to nerf something when it doesn't need it. There's also no reason to nerf something because it's making gameplay stale because that doesn't mean it'll change anything. Iway hasn't budged an inch after 2 (?) subtle nerfs to the build? I'd think dual smite would have started taking over TA/ABs. :|

WLlama · Jul 08, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

A lot of the counters mentioned use skills that are not exactly high level (diversion, degen, cripple (sure, shot is elite but traps work with some care/tact/stances)) so I wouldn't say that it gives an unfair advantage to any set of "noobs" over another. (In fact, it slightly irks me that people new to PvP were just called "noobs" on this forum but that is another matter entirely...we were all there once, don't forget that.)

eternal pho · Jul 08, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

I played the RT a while back but only for a couple hours and it simply bored me, but personally I hate to play that build, for it made me feel like a complete noob using it.

markus_thom · Jul 08, 2006, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stileto Switchblade

Sorry if there is already a thread for this - but you guys have your search disabled all of the time.

So.....

How many of you 12v12 players are sick and tired of these touch rangers?? Personally I don't even do 12v12 anymore so if GW was looking for this to be competitive - they screwed up BIG TIME.

At least with other builds you have a chance to have a good battle. With this build - the only build I've seen that can even come close is a mesmer.

So....what is Anet looking for - all Touch Rangers & Mesmers??? NO THX

So I say....NERF IT!!

You did it to the AoE's for elementalists and to the Minion Master - how about doing something about this one!!

Lets put some competition back into the game!!

I"M SICK OF NERFING, Instead of nerfing bring in more counter skills.
OR stop playing cookie cutter builds. All you warrior complain the most about touchers because you cant do the whole tanking approach you have been doing for ages start kiting instead of standing there, It makes sense that perticulor builds do well or better against others.

Even a ranger spiker can take out a ranger/necro. Anyhting basically with good damage output thats ranged can take one out before it reaches you.

If your a wammo Try using a hammer, or changing you build.

Anet should think about making touch rangers blindable, or putting in more skills or buffing skills like scourge healing for example to damage self heal.
Make it evadeable, problem solved.

anything but nerfing, start thinking about skills in the future that will dispose of iway and secture in the future.

Hidden in the Mist · Jul 08, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Touch skills aren't 'blindable'.

Silent Kitty · Jul 08, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

When you see a touchy and you don't know how to kite, just run

Touchers hate it when you run.

Hidden in the Mist · Jul 08, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

That's why I bring Vampiric Gaze

Whenever I go with as a Toucher, I like to use:

Vampiric Touch
Touch of Agony
Vampiric Bite
Offering of Blood
Dodge
Zojun's Haste
Whirling Defense
Vampiric Gaze (if there isn't a lot Minion Masters that day)/Verata's Aura (if there's a lot of Minion Masters that day)

vaxmor · Jul 08, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Its much too hard to learn2play, kiting, degens and snares cant be easily fitted into most sword W/MO mending/healing breeze builds, therefore we MUST act to IMMEDIATELY nerf (touch) rangers.
Why bother to snare, kite or degen a (touch) ranger when its so much more effective to whine/complain on forums for more ranger nerfing?

frojack · Jul 08, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

People don't get it. Simply having a counter (or many counters) is not a sufficient argument for something to avoid a nerf. The build has made arena play rather stale, therefore a nerf is in order. You really shouldn't give noobs playing touch rangers a huge advantage over noobs playing most every other build. The next rebalance should intentionally move peoples interest away from touch rangers.

Um, wow. That is probably the best argument I have heard to date. Well done...

Takkun · Jul 08, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobias Funke

As this is my favorite PvP build I have to inject a point here. Yes, this owns a touch ranger. Usually you can own 2 at a time. But in AB's there comes a time when the other teams 6 touch rangers realize that you and the mesmer are the only ones that know how to stop them. So in the end we get mobbed by said touchers and go down first. While waiting to rez the rest of our team gets wiped out because they have no idea how to beat a toucher. By the time we get back into the action our team has lost 2 control points and all the whammos rage quit because their team mates "let them die". I'm left saying "balls" to my self. Maybe touchers need the nerf bat and the point about them not being atttacks is spot on, but more importantly people need to stop being lame and learn do their own thing. It's really a much more fun game when you do that.

So when do cripshot rangers not known every close combat proffession in the game?

Silent Kitty · Jul 08, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

If everything else fails, because you forgot your snaring/kiting skills, split your team. Let one half of your team take the abuse and fight for the flag, and an other part gank their Guild Lord, so they are forced to retreat in defence.

TheMadKingGeorge · Jul 08, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

ill nerf it if anet brings back griffon farming and makes the aoe nerf go away or also makes the henches run out of aoe dmg

Sectus · Jul 08, 2006, 12:09 PM // 12:09

YES! I really think touch rangers should be changed. For 2 reasons, they are overpowered and they're not fun.

Overpowered in the way that most counters have absolutely no effect against touch rangers. If you consider any build, you usually have a ton of counters. Any caster build... dazed, backfire, interrupting, energy drain, spiking, etc... Any weapon build... blind, weakness, kiting, etc... And what counters do you need to have against touch rangers? Snaring. That's the only effective way of shutting down a touch ranger. It's really unfair they only have one useful counter, and if you don't have that you're doomed.

If I remember correctly, Izzy himself said that skills are supposed be in broad categories so that you won't be forced to bring a specific counter against just one type of build. A build such as touch rangers go against this. Sure it's no big deal in HA or GvG where there's most probably multiple people with snares, but in other pvp arenas with smaller teams, then it doesn't become as easy. In a small team it gets hard enough to make sure you have counters against general type of builds, it becomes a lot harder if you're forced to include very specific counters.

And the most important argument, touch rangers are NOT fun. The entire concept of the build (constantly spamming 2 skills) doesn't sound like something which is fun to play. And as long as you don't bring a snare skill, it feels so pointless to fight against touch rangers. My normal counters has absolutely no effect. The only useful thing I can do is completely ignore them, hope that I get healed or do some damage to someone else before I die.

kryshnysh · Jul 08, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

There's also no reason to nerf something because it's making gameplay stale because that doesn't mean it'll change anything. Iway hasn't budged an inch after 2 (?) subtle nerfs to the build? I'd think dual smite would have started taking over TA/ABs. :|

Previous examples of things not being done doesn't imply that it shouldn't be done.

IWAY has definitely budged a good bit. I no longer run into nearly the same amount of IWAY as before. In addition, I now see a larger precentage of IWAY groups running a mod of some sort or another. Still present doesn't mean it hasn't been reduced in numbers. Any good "nerf" should keep the strategy viable but reduce its power.

As has been posted here, the problem is that no matter how bad the toucher is, most players who aren't in the upper tier of guild wars players will lose to it far more often than not. Frustration tends to occur before learning.

Touch Ranger Thread in the PvP Section

Zakarr · Jul 08, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

The reason why some builds are cookie cutters, is that most of random players don't understand how they work and therefore don't realize how to beat them. Minority can do nothing in that situation. Sometimes there is enough experienced players to make them balanced, sometimes there isn't.

Touch ranger is just one build among others. Maybe this has something to do with "common RPG style" where that kind of builds have never existed. Guild Wars breaks so many RPG clichés that most get confused. Some quit because of that, some start to complain and some learn to adapt.

If touch rangers are popular, bring something which they are weak against. You can't always play your beloved build if you want to survive. Good builds are linked to enemy builds. If their builds change, your builds must change too. You can't alone counter everything. Ask help from your team if you are trouble. This is team game after all.

Da Cebuano · Jul 08, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

The main problem w/ this build that most people who say "Oh just get some skills" is that you'll have to build totally around it which is not possbile w/ the classes in GW that'll on AB(yes, they are mainly here). How will a AB built up warrior counter this? no degen(cept for bleed which is plaguetouched), ele? 100ar vs elements anyone? or any other class w/ no way to counter it.

I myself beat touch ranger and lost some. Its very hard to defeat them as a warrior(stances they carry) or as r/a(main ab char nowadays). GW really isn't about skill, since all it is, is point and click + press buttons, there is no actual skill involved like games such as counter strike where you'll have to aim. GW is more of a thinking man competition, you'll have to outwit your opponent w/ the builds you have, however, it is certain that some builds simply can't counter others,therefore will lose. Some of you guys will have to get out of your rock and admit that, competitive classes that work vs everything else then fail to touch rangers just cause... seems endearing, unbalancing aspect of the build.

Too bad my mesmer is still lv2

still it kinda sucks I'll have to retort to using a complete counter build just to stay competitive vs these guys. That shouldn't be the case, since that counter build will not work against all else.

zakaria · Jul 08, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Touch ranger should be nerfed..i know blackout, diversion, SS, wild blow, warrior's cunning, cripple shot covered with poison...etc. all these are counters to touch rangers but when you force me to and all my team to grab counters coz we might find that half of the opposite team are touch rangers..this is dumb.

We are not forced to bind towards certain build that some ppl see it cool to run it.All of you were talking about single touch ranger...let's discuss about countering half dozen of them in AB then come back to talk with me if it's easy and fun to counter them or not.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jul 08, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

There are plenty of counters to Touch Rangers. Use them.

Silent Kitty · Jul 08, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

As observer I like to watch spike builds, and always hope they lose.